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andybebbington
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Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: peterhead
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 Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | children under supervision (in other words on the child protection register) are not allowed to be home educated ..........more anti home ed spin! |
is this not a good thing ? surely being on the register suggests protection is needed most kids on it need protection from some thing at home so home education is not going to help any child in this case
| Quote: | you take a witness to school meetings is the advice given to you by organisations such as Parent to Parent,. Now why would that be?
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I dont like the use of the word witness this indicates that they are there to back you up in court when you sue schools.
"Witnesses" are there for several reasons,
they are a second pair of ears
they are able to help both parent and teacher understand were the other is coming from
they can be there for support if thing get emotional
they can help you remember what what said at a meeting especially if you have been angry or emotional its amazing what you forget in a short time were as as "witness" can help you remember.
they can take note for you
they can calm things down if things get heated
they are not just there to back you up when you have a complaint they can also back up the teacher/school
i have been a "witness" at meetings with schools and sometimes it has taken me as the"witness" to be the one to get the point over to the parent/carer as they did not understand what was being said and i could explain things for them in a way they could understand
| Quote: | | The majority of home educators I have met haven't removed their children because they just want to. They have removed them because their child, the ones I know are special needs, have been bullied not only by pupils by these inspected teachers. They , including my son, have been bought near to suicidal thoughts because of the bullying. |
Near suicidal thoughts? you either have them or you don't,
There are many more reasons to home educate than bullying eg some of the home educated kids i have met were home educated because they were kicked out of schools for being disruptive. some were unable to get a place at a school suitable to the childs needs, some because the parents wanted to educate at home as they believed it was a better education and yes there is one child i know of home educated because of alleged bullying
| Quote: | | Julie to clarify to you the main objection (remember this is in England and Wales at present) is the authority to enter your home by local authorities, like social workers but without the training, and interview your child ON THEIR OWN and without any adult being present. Young children who are often vulnerable and not understand what was being said to them. Children who will be interrogated by someone whose aim is often to 'prove' that no education is taking place and the child at risk. Would you allow your child to have this done to them? Not even the police are allowed to interview a child or vulnerable adult without an appropriate adult being there so why should the local authority be allowed to? |
firstly no one with out training will be doing this !
You can insist on an independent adult being present, and no child can be questioned with out the parents consent.
yes children may be vulnerable and not always understand what being asked but the interviewer will be trained to ask questions in a way that a child can understand and answer. If i was home educating and had nothing to hide then i would have no problem in my child being questioned by authorities - they can get questioned by them at school aswell with out there teacher being there !
I agree with Sass and Julies comments on home education if your doing a good job then would you not be proud to of been inspected and told your doing a good job, Inspectors are not there just to find faults - they can offer guidance and offer assistance.
I am not against home education but believe if it is done it should be done right. And if not then intervention is needed. i have met kids that have been home educated that have been held back and dont get the education they need. In these cases inspection would of been a good thing as it might of bucked up the home educator into teaching properly or realising they were not up to doing it themselves and sending there child to school
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why do feet smell and noses run?
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad! |
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IainC
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Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 2552
Location: nr 'Meldrum
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| baldowrie wrote: | | I Said wrote: | | I certainly know that if anyone wanted to speak to my kids alone, they would be told to FO. |
And there lies the problem if you were to do so you will be arrested if it goes through as it is, just as if you refused entry to a social worker. The two, as I keep saying are linked, by the Every Child Matters. |
They can come and arrest me then... see if I'm bothered... with a bit of luck, the police coming to arrest me would be the same as the ones who you dealt with and realise WHY the other person was being refused access on their own... I would do the exact same to a social worker as well, or in fact anyone who wanted to have a private word with my child on their own. |
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andybebbington
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Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: peterhead
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| baldowrie wrote: |
WRONG! I was by one school and they tried to make a case out of it until my sons consultant stepped in. Had she not I would have had a very hard fight on my hands. The charge? Starving my son because he is thin. Starve???? You should see how much he eats, he cost me a flipping fortune in food! There are certain local authorities that will send a child protection flag up as soon as someone decides to home educate...and yes I know who they are and some that have been affected and no I won't naming them due to data protection etc. And those sayng there is no smoke without fire my lovely neighbour made a report to social services because my son behaves differently, he is autistic. Social serives made one phone call and dropped the case. I have spoken to the social worker conserned and she has absolutely NO intentions of making a case of even coming out to me UNLESS I want her to. My neighbour made a further accusation to the poice who happened to be at my house at the very time she called on something she had done to my son. The police officers practically went into uncontollable laughter at the ludicracy of the accusations as they happened to speaking to my daughter at the time and remarked how well adjusted she was. So there you go you do get labelled as an abuse without evidence, even when the evidence has proven otherwise, by schools and local authorities.
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I think here that its peoples lack of understanding that causes allegations but with explanation it does not take long for them to understand. Just because someone made an allegation against you you dont end up labelled an abuser.
Does the first neighbour still think your an abuser now that the social worker has talked to them?
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why do feet smell and noses run?
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad! |
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andybebbington
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Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: peterhead
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| IainC wrote: | | baldowrie wrote: | | I Said wrote: | | I certainly know that if anyone wanted to speak to my kids alone, they would be told to FO. |
And there lies the problem if you were to do so you will be arrested if it goes through as it is, just as if you refused entry to a social worker. The two, as I keep saying are linked, by the Every Child Matters. |
They can come and arrest me then... see if I'm bothered... with a bit of luck, the police coming to arrest me would be the same as the ones who you dealt with and realise WHY the other person was being refused access on their own... I would do the exact same to a social worker as well, or in fact anyone who wanted to have a private word with my child on their own. |
no one can gain entry to your home with out permission weather its the athorities,social work dept or the police if you say no then no means no, if they want access and you say no then they need a court warrant befor they can enter and that will only be given if there judge is given sufficiant evidance that entry is required. If you say no to a stranger talking to your child alone or only with out a independent person being present then they have to observe your wishes
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why do feet smell and noses run?
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad! |
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baldowrie
Neepster
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1159
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You can insist on an independent adult being present, and no child can be questioned with out the parents consent.
yes children may be vulnerable and not always understand what being asked but the interviewer will be trained to ask questions in a way that a child can understand and answer. If i was home educating and had nothing to hide then i would have no problem in my child being questioned by authorities - they can get questioned by them at school aswell with out there teacher being there !
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See point 2.6 .http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/consultati...20WORD%20consultationDocument.doc
We believe that local authorities should interview children within 4 weeks of home education starting, after 6 months has elapsed, and thereafter at least annually to assess the quality of education provided and ensure that children are safe and well. The local authority should visit the premises where education is conducted, and question the child about the education provided, although at least 2 weeks notice should be given before the visit is conducted. The local authority should have the right to carry out the interview without a parent being present, if this is judged appropriate, or alternatively if the child is vulnerable or has particular communication needs, in the company of a trusted person who is not the home educator or parent/carer
and just who decides it's appropriate..it won't be the parent will it.
And yes my neighbour still strongly believes I am abuser and tells every one she can so to, but then she has other 'issues' regarding me. |
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baldowrie
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1159
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think here that its peoples lack of understanding that causes allegations but with explanation it does not take long for them to understand. |
sorry but some will refuse to understand even when doctors police and social workers 'explain' things to them..they have an agenda and want to stick to it.
Oh and also when threaten with court action if they continue their unsubstantiated accessions, yes that includes local authorities
[url]Near suicidal thoughts? you either have them or you don't,
[/url] saying over and over agian I want to die and kill me please counts I think!
[url]is this not a good thing ? surely being on the register suggests protection is needed most kids on it need protection from some thing at home so home education is not going to help any child in this case [/url]
at no point have I suggested others wise but what I have said that some local authorites will try and get the child onthe register without evidence to prevent home edcation, even when their no evidence of abuse. |
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IainC
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Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 2552
Location: nr 'Meldrum
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| baldowrie wrote: | | Quote: | You can insist on an independent adult being present, and no child can be questioned with out the parents consent.
yes children may be vulnerable and not always understand what being asked but the interviewer will be trained to ask questions in a way that a child can understand and answer. If i was home educating and had nothing to hide then i would have no problem in my child being questioned by authorities - they can get questioned by them at school aswell with out there teacher being there !
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See point 2.6 .http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/consultati...20WORD%20consultationDocument.doc
We believe that local authorities should interview children within 4 weeks of home education starting, after 6 months has elapsed, and thereafter at least annually to assess the quality of education provided and ensure that children are safe and well. The local authority should visit the premises where education is conducted, and question the child about the education provided, although at least 2 weeks notice should be given before the visit is conducted. The local authority should have the right to carry out the interview without a parent being present, if this is judged appropriate, or alternatively if the child is vulnerable or has particular communication needs, in the company of a trusted person who is not the home educator or parent/carer
and just who decides it's appropriate..it won't be the parent will it.
And yes my neighbour still strongly believes I am abuser and tells every one she can so to, but then she has other 'issues' regarding me. |
I feel that it would be unfair on the home ed children if they WEREN'T checked at least once a year by someone to ensure that they were learning at the same (or better) rate as the school kids... also your post says interviewed on their own if appropriate, I'd imagine in most cases they'd never even ask to interview the kid on it's own, it's purely there as a get-out clause if they are dealing with someone who is abusing the child (the abuse could be lack of teaching as much as physically/mentally abusing them IMO).
As for your neighbour, if she's shouting her head off to everyone about you, then either you are an abuser  or more likely there is something far wrong with her instead... most other people will see that if they deal with her often (as the police you mentioned did). |
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IainC
Moderator
Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 2552
Location: nr 'Meldrum
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| baldowrie wrote: | | Quote: | | I think here that its peoples lack of understanding that causes allegations but with explanation it does not take long for them to understand. |
sorry but some will refuse to understand even when doctors police and social workers 'explain' things to them..they have an agenda and want to stick to it.
Oh and also when threaten with court action if they continue their unsubstantiated accessions, yes that includes local authorities
[url]Near suicidal thoughts? you either have them or you don't,
[/url] saying over and over agian I want to die and kill me please counts I think!
[url]is this not a good thing ? surely being on the register suggests protection is needed most kids on it need protection from some thing at home so home education is not going to help any child in this case [/url]
at no point have I suggested others wise but what I have said that some local authorites will try and get the child onthe register without evidence to prevent home edcation, even when their no evidence of abuse. |
I think that's the point though... it's the individual people who are enforcing the rules, etc that are the problem, not the rules as such themselves.
For example, I'm effectively on call 24/7/365, and in most cases respond to any issues as they happen... technically speaking though I'm only employed for 8hrs a day... if I was to take it to the letter, then anything stopping everyone from working, would just need to wait until tomorrow when I got in. That's what some of these people are doing, they are just applying the full letter of the law ('cos in most cases they won't have the common sense to see which bit will/won't apply). |
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baldowrie
Neepster
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1159
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: |
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But then again Iain we are back the senario of the police officers of the local authority 'misunderstanding' the legistration.
Yes neighbour has issue's and has been warned by those they complain to now I believe as I heard on the last public rant.... more annoyance than anything as I have to spend days/weeks dealing with it rather than educate my son!
Think you will find that most, not all, home edder would allow checks if they could trust the person who came to check them not bend the truth....but also that happens far too often to too many people
Last edited by baldowrie on Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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baldowrie
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1159
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="IainC
[url]is this not a good thing ? surely being on the register suggests protection is needed most kids on it need protection from some thing at home so home education is not going to help any child in this case [/url]
at no point have I suggested others wise but what I have said that some local authorites will try and get the child onthe register without evidence to prevent home edcation, even when their no evidence of abuse.[/quote]
I think that's the point though... it's the individual people who are enforcing the rules, etc that are the problem, not the rules as such themselves.
For example, I'm effectively on call 24/7/365, and in most cases respond to any issues as they happen... technically speaking though I'm only employed for 8hrs a day... if I was to take it to the letter, then anything stopping everyone from working, would just need to wait until tomorrow when I got in. That's what some of these people are doing, they are just applying the full letter of the law ('cos in most cases they won't have the common sense to see which bit will/won't apply).[/quote]
Totally correct...I am currently abusing my son in making him tidy his bedroom  |
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