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Ina

Which car?

I need a new car. Can't be helped, but my trusty old rust heap isn't really trustworthy any more, and definitely won't make it through the next MOT (unless I'd spend more on it than a new car would cost...)

So: any advice on what to buy? I want the impossible, of course: it's got to be robust (long lifespan), easily repaired (no fiddly electronics!), low in fuel consumption. Considering the kind of weather we've been having, it would be nice to handle snow well, too.

What I don't need: anything fast, flashy, big. Two seats and loading space preferred to 5 seats and fancy stereo.
Smooth Hound

a van, i would say then.
Ina

Possibly - but a small one, to reduce fuel consumption!
Smooth Hound

if you join this site, my site   well i moderate it anyway, then post the same question there


http://cityvanners.10.forumer.com/index.php
IainC

306 DTurbo is pretty cheap for bits (and to buy/insure) and will do 50mpg... 106 1.5 Diesel is pretty much the same in a smaller car (but is a bit slower). You'd get either one fairly cheap.

Any of the slightly larger Pugs would be probably cheaper again (ie 405 or 406 TDi). VW TDis are probably better screwed together, but then you'll pay extra for them to start with (and on insurance, etc).

Don't know if I'd bother with a van TBH, unless you need to carry a lot of stuff fairly regularly.

If you don't do much in the way of mileage, you'd maybe be better off with a car with a larger petrol engine 'cos you'd end up with a far better car for the purchase price, and it'd not cost you too much in your limited travelling.

I guess you'd need to decide what your budget was and what you want it for and how much mileage you are likely to do in a week/month/year to get a good guide as to what would suit properly.

Bear in mind you don't NEED an AWD to be good in snow, decent set of winter tyres will see you thru' most of the worse weather, only starts becoming an issue as and when it gets REALLY bad.
Smooth Hound

id stick to deisel myself, but thats just my preferance
Ina

IainC wrote:

Bear in mind you don't NEED an AWD to be good in snow, decent set of winter tyres will see you thru' most of the worse weather, only starts becoming an issue as and when it gets REALLY bad.


Don't I know it... Nobody I know in Germany has a 4x4, but nobody seems to have problems with snow, either - although there is a lot more around on a regular basis! And they don't go mad about salting, either. They just know that you don't go out in your car unless you have winter tyres.

Thanks for your advice - I'll have to look into that another night.
IainC

Smooth Hound wrote:
id stick to deisel myself, but thats just my preferance


Depends... at the moment diesel is dearer than petrol (was about 15p a litre dearer at one point... no idea of the difference at the moment though). Now at 15p/l difference, that's near 70p a gallon difference. In a tankfull that's roughly £9 of a difference (or close to 2 gallons of petrol). So a decent petrol car will be as economical to run as an average TDi.

Then if you take into account the cheaper purchase price (generally) of the petrol one then you can sometimes actually work out better off with a petrol one.

Personally I have one of each (plus the Disco which has lpg and petrol as well so I've pretty much got all bases covered ).

Our TDi though, is a LOT better fuel wise (never below 50mpg and can be over 60mpg if you want to watch how you drive). Costs £200 to insure, £110 to tax for the year, it's nippy and a not bad family car (5dr). Only real downside is it's a Seat, and while build quailty isn't bad... it's not great IYKWIM.
IainC

Ina wrote:
Don't I know it... Nobody I know in Germany has a 4x4, but nobody seems to have problems with snow, either - although there is a lot more around on a regular basis! And they don't go mad about salting, either. They just know that you don't go out in your car unless you have winter tyres.

Thanks for your advice - I'll have to look into that another night.


Let us know roughly what kind of budget/range you are talking about and I'll have a quick look at different ones if you want. Might be that I'll see or know of different makes/models that you wouldn't maybe think of IYKWIM.
Lord_Azrael

It depends on your budget really.
I would personally recommend my Fiat Panda 1.3 MultiJet Diesel to anyone.  It's a brilliant car.  Comfortable, loads of head room, higher up than most small cars which is great for vision, does up to 80mpg, road tax is only £35 a year and that's going down in the next few years too.  Insurance is really cheap too.  The tank holds just over £25 worth of Diesel at current prices and is good for about 500 miles.  All the usual specs, electric front windows, ABS, electric power steering with an additional 'city' mode, Blaupunkt CD system etc. etc.
It also handles very well in the snow and ice ( as I've found out these last few weeks )
It cost just over £7000 brand new when I got it in '05.
Cockadoodledoo

I too love my Panda - I go down to the Borders and back quite regularly on a tank of fuel.
I must admit though it is no good in the weather we have just had, I have to revert back to 4x4, but the Panda is great for 99% of the time.
Smooth Hound

sorry im going to have to interupt here dont get a panda sorry all
IainC

He means the new one, not the old cardboard ones you are thinking of
Smooth Hound

well what ever,    cr p
Cockadoodledoo

I always laughed at the old ones and would never have even thought about getting one, but the new ones are fantastic
pete_inthehills

From bitter experience I say...DO NOT BUY FROM THAINSTONE'S AUCTION!!!

You must be able to test drive the car before hand, that way you'll know what you are getting.

I'm sure there is a comparison website showing all the most fuel efficient cars.  If I get time, I'll hunt it down.

pete
inthehills
IainC

What you need to watch out for are some of the "fuel efficient" cars that aren't actually as FE as they claim due to the way that the tests are run. If all of your driving is done either out on the open road, or in stop start traffic, then your results can be wildly different.
baldowrie

here's a Guardian article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/mar/01/motoring.consumeraffairs1

I would also buy a copy of Which Car and have look through it.

If you can afford to I would go for brand new car because not only will have no MOT for 3 years but probably have a year or so of free Comprehensive insurance.  You will also be in a fantastic bargaining position because of the economic position of the car industry at present, sooooooooo if they won't give you more than one year insurance for example you can 'um and ah' until they do My car for instance, although 7 years ago, I got a years free fully comp insurance and when I went to renew because they weren't cheaper and I WAS going to go else where .They gave me another 6 months to try and keep me in the hope I would buy more insurance from them.  That was Mitsubishi!

Just stay well clear of 'bar-steward' Sharks...not their real name rhymes with.  They have a certain reputation through out the car industry, and not a pleasant one!

Oh and Ina do not forget to play the dotty 'old' bat that knows nothing about cars and can only just drive one until it comes to the crunch!
Smooth Hound

if your spending alot of money, i would concider getting the aa or rac to check it over, it costs , but worth the money, and id stay away from the auctions, even people that know cars can come unstuck, not worth the risk, you only get one chance   i speak from experience although i have been lucky before, but not as often as unlucky

although saying that, if you were at an auction selling expolice, or post office vehicles, that sort of thing, then you know why there being sold and they would have been serviced properly
IainC

Smooth Hound wrote:
if your spending alot of money, i would concider getting the aa or rac to check it over, it costs , but worth the money, and id stay away from the auctions, even people that know cars can come unstuck, not worth the risk, you only get one chance   i speak from experience although i have been lucky before, but not as often as unlucky

although saying that, if you were at an auction selling expolice, or post office vehicles, that sort of thing, then you know why there being sold and they would have been serviced properly


Yup, buying 2nd hand you need to be careful. I also bought a car that was a bit iffy from a dealer. It didn't show up the problem until later on though which would have cost me a fair bit if it wasn't for the fact I was able to trade it in against another car (and that dealer never drove it beforehand so I was lucky).
Ina

Goodness me - so much good advice! THanks to all of you - I shall certainly keep it all in mind while I intesify my search... The old rustheap seems to be getting wobblier all the time; I never know whether it's just the wind blowing it about, or whether it's losing a wheel again.
Smooth Hound

again
annepan001

You could check out the green car site too, for comparisons of emissions / mpg etc:

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/

I'm hankering after an electric 4WD Subaru estate.  Give it a few years ... I see they have a concept electric car already, tho not 4WD.  

I have a dream of having a wind turbine that generates more than enough electricity for the farm, AND powers up our electric farm vehicles.  All I need now is a wind turbine, and electric farm vehicles.  
IainC

I think the ideal thing, would be a device that you could put within *any* drivetrain, that would allow you to use leccy at lower speeds. Would mean that for a "modest" (hopefully) outlay, you could then convert an existing vehicle to be a hybrid, rather than needing £100k+ as appears to be the case at the moment.

I did hear about KTM making an electric bike soon, then found out that there already is one out in the US... http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-x.php

By my reckoning, excluding the shipping (or getting stung for duty as it came in) you'd be looking at the best part of £7k for it... makes it a pricey 125/250cc alternative. I guess the good part about it would be the less maintenance and hopefully much lower cost of travelling. Biggest limiting factor would be the range though, and if the batteries lasted long enough before needing changed as well.
annepan001

I found a small electric van online today, made by Smith's, does 70 mph and over 100 miles per charge.  Asked for pricelist, and found it's £35,000 plus VAT. gulp. not a chance til the big Premium Bond win drops into the mailbox.  

I started getting quite taken with the look of the "NICE" electric cars, then read underneath the photos that NICE have gone into administration in December. Shame ...
IainC

The problem is that you can't seem to get a good looking one without paying huge amounts, and you can't get one with a decent range without paying thru' the nose either.

I do fancy building one from an older car, as per some of the ones I've seen online. Like everything else though, it's a time and space thing... got little of either
IainC

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/econews/volkswagen-roadster.htm

Looks suspiciously similar to a 2 seater sportster than Seat were going to be producing for £10-15k a few years back... guess it suits VW better to produce it for themselves and charge an extra few K for it having a VW badge.
Smooth Hound

speaking about electric motorbikes, i was looking at daves, thats lisas other halfs book on all motorbikes, and was amazed to find that they were making them at the beginning of the last century,  
IainC

Well looking on ebay, you can actually buy a new 'leccy bike for ~ £500 by the looks of it... although it sounds like technically you can't exceed 30kph otherwise you are breaking the law. So I guess there are low priced options out there, just the speed/range needs improved (and the looks )
annepan001

They used to make an electric farm tractor too, but sadly there was no market at the time - can't remember which website it was on, but I think it was made in the 70s by one of the big US manufacturers.

Here's a guy who made his own: http://www.7gen.com/blog-entry/el.../solar-electric-farm-tractor/2086

don't think a solar powered one would work too well in NE Scotland tho!!  
Smooth Hound

i have been seriously thinking about an electric bike, and that sounds a good price, not got the money yet, but i was thinking it would be great, 30 kph would be fine, just to feel the wind blowing your hair, and just quietly admiring the scenery in the summer and nice days that is, nipping in to town , that sort of thing
Ina

annepan001 wrote:

don't think a solar powered one would work too well in NE Scotland tho!!  


Well, you shouldn't be working the soil in rain anyway...

Yes, Smooth - again: both my front wheels dropped off not too long ago. I was very lucky that nothing much happened.

Thanks for the green car website, too - I'd been looking for something like that!


Well - I've been through the green car website for a bit, and the Panda really seems to be the cheapest (new) in that class... Next in line would be the Skoda Fabia - anybody any experience with that one?

There's also SEAT Ibiza Ecomotive, and then, of course, the VW Blue Motion lot (quite a bit more, pricewise). Unfortunately, there seems to be something very dangerous about the VW websites - they are blocked here at the library!  I tell you, us Germans, dangerous stuff...

I'lll keep looking.
Smooth Hound

my chice out of what you said, would be the skoda, and theres a skoda garage in maud, so you could take a nose,
baldowrie

Skodas are much better than they used to be, and I believe made by VW now anyway.

Panda have a very good and a very bad press.  The good ones are very good and the bad very bad and there appears to be little in between
IainC

Assuming the new Pandas really have moved on quality wise, then I'd say it'd be as good a choice as any, but then I've never really looked at one... wouldn't touch one of the old ones with YOUR bargepole, let alone mine

Skodas have come a LONG way since the jokes, basically the Skoda and Seat motors, are just the cheaper VW alternative. They are all owned by the VAG group. You'll find that the Fabia, Ibiza and Polo all use the exact same chassis and more than likely the engine as well. Main differences are the badge on the front and possibly the quality of some of the materials.

Have to say, when we got our Leon TDi, a couple of mates bought the VW Golf TDi version (same engine), and yet the VW's all seemed to have far more problems than the Seat did. Could just have been a couple of "lemons" from VW but I dunno.

TBH though, I doubt you'll find many new cars that beat the shortlist you already have. I guess you may get a cheap Ford TDCI (Focus or Fiesta) but I'd still imagine that they are more expensive than the ones you've listed above.
Ina

I've never really had a prejudice against Skoda - a friend of mine had one ages ago, and he was quite content with it.

Now another consideration - which one would be the best for rough farm tracks? Gosh, the things you have to think of when you live in the sticks!!! But I lost my exhaust (or rather, eitehr the front or the back dropped off) 5 times or so on my Micra, and I'm sure that was partly because of the fact that I have to use farm tracks occasionally...
IainC

You can get a 4x4 skoda octavia (and possibly others) and it's more than capable when the tarmac stops. My fathers company car is one, replaced a Freelander and he's never been stuck in it... and takes it places you'd NEVER take your own car.
baldowrie

4x4 yes.  Also try and get them to put all terrain tyres on instead of road tyres.  I changed my tyres from road ones as they kept wearing out (thanks Stoney for the help ).  Not only are they not wearing on my road but the drive is more comfortable
Smooth Hound

skodas are ok on tracks, but then again so are pandas. 4x4 sounds like a good idea
IainC

Only downside I can think of, was that the 4x4 tdi was the lower powered engine, they may have sorted that now though. The higher output engine isn't any worse mpg wise and it'd give you better towing ability, etc.
Sassinak

We have 2 4x4 Octavias. Mine is a saloon and Phil's the estate version.
They handle just as well in the snow and mud as the Trooper, the only advantage the Trooper has is ground clearance in deep snow. They are both petrol because when we bought them they didn't do the Octavia as a 4x4 diesel.
Highly recommended
Smooth Hound

although, this is only my opinion, but i prefer the non turbo version, i know the turbo is just as economical and is faster , more powerful etc, but it puts a heck of alot more pressure on the engine, hence a lower lifespan to the engine etc, the non turbo goes on and on for twice the mileage, but as i say , thats just my opinion
IainC

Smooth Hound wrote:
although, this is only my opinion, but i prefer the non turbo version, i know the turbo is just as economical and is faster , more powerful etc, but it puts a heck of alot more pressure on the engine, hence a lower lifespan to the engine etc, the non turbo goes on and on for twice the mileage, but as i say , thats just my opinion


You must be thinking of older turbo models, most modern turbos will outlast the bodywork of the cars

I know of a good number of tdi's that are running *significantly* more power than they left the factory with, they are just as fuel efficient as they were before, and they have done in excess of 200,000 miles. If that's not a decent engine I dunno what is

IKWYM though about some of the older types of engines, they could get easier stressed, esp if someone thought they'd raise the boost by themselves... eventually they'd let go.

Mind you, at the end of the day I guess it's how you drive it that will stress it or not, if you are a fairly relaxed driver (not trying to hit the redline everywhere) then it should never be an issue.
IainC

Smooth Hound wrote:
although, this is only my opinion, but i prefer the non turbo version, i know the turbo is just as economical and is faster , more powerful etc, but it puts a heck of alot more pressure on the engine, hence a lower lifespan to the engine etc, the non turbo goes on and on for twice the mileage, but as i say , thats just my opinion


Oh, and meant to say, unless you get a very small car, you'd almost struggle to find a diesel on sale new now, that ISN'T a turbocharged one. Honestly can't think of a single one offhand. I know that VW used to do an SDi, but I don't think it sold well 'cos it'd struggle to pull the skin off a rice pudding.
Smooth Hound

i appreciate that, i have a tdci myself, but ina was saying she wasnt after speed , power etc, just thought id give my opinion
Ina

You are right, Smooth - and I definitely won't buy a 4x4! I'm after a "green" car, i.e. low fuel consumption, and I haven't found a 4x4 yet that fits into that category... It's just that I was wondering which of the cars that might be possibles are the best for this kind of country driving. Some might be a bit lower on the groudn than others. Probably won't make much of a difference, though.
Smooth Hound

the skodas ok for height, not sure where you are at the moment, but if your at sues, then nip down to maud and have a nose, get them to give you a drive in one
Ina

I'm in Turriff just now - want to go to the castle on the way back; I'll leave Maud for next week!
IainC

Ina wrote:
You are right, Smooth - and I definitely won't buy a 4x4! I'm after a "green" car, i.e. low fuel consumption, and I haven't found a 4x4 yet that fits into that category... It's just that I was wondering which of the cars that might be possibles are the best for this kind of country driving. Some might be a bit lower on the groudn than others. Probably won't make much of a difference, though.


The Octavia 4x4 will still return over 50mpg in normal driving. It doesn't lose much at all being all wheel drive.

The engine in our Leon is pretty much the same as the one in my dads car and I'd guess that there is less than 5mpg of a difference in normal running between the two.
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