Archive for NEEPS North East Eco-friendly People's Site          NEEPS Forum Index -> What's on TV/Radio Lord_Azrael The Victorian Farm I watched this last night (well most of it, as I was stuck at work again and people kept pestering me for things!) and it was really good.  It shows many of the ways that I feelmany of us on here aim towards. It's repeated tomorrow evening on BBC2. Cockadoodledoo We missed it but have made a note to watch the repeat.  I love anything like this Diana Also available on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/epis...00gmxrd/Victorian_Farm_Episode_1/ bracken programme It's a fairly interesting programme but not always historically accurate - for instance the man who is supposed to be the land agent (the younger of the two farm owners) held up an instrument that they'd found in one of the barns and said that it was a 'castrator' - it was actually a horses 'tail docker'. The same crew made a similar film a couple of years ago but the era was a lot earlier. The whole thing is a mixture of reality tv but using 'experts', Jimmy's farm where the entertainment was derived from watching the 'exploits of a pig farmer', and Time Team. I don't think it will show the true realities of farming in the Victorian times but I hope they show the proper transition from horse power to mechanical methods - although the real demise of horsepower was when tractors replaced horses during the World Wars. The chap ploughing with horses is one of the horsemen at Beamish Museum and if you want to see a ploughing demonstration you wouldn't go far wrong if you visited during any of their 'working days'. Whilst the programme romanticizes the use of horses on the 'farm' it certainly won't show the expense of keeping and using such an animal!!! Martin it all depends what you count as "expense"... if you're talking cash, it's expensive, if you're talking carbon footprint, it's incredibly, vanishingly, cheap! bracken programme having kept and worked a shire horse the expense - to my pocket - was extreme! For instance a working horse needs to be regulary shod (despite what some people say!) in England the cost of replacing shoes was £70 every 6 weeks. Farriers are in short supply and those who will tackle a 'heavy' can charge over the odds. Vets bills - very expensive. A heavy needs regular worming, flu jabs and any regular vet treatment i.e teeth cleaning etc. Most of these are not covered by insurance which I had - premiums cost over £30 per month. Feeding - a working horse cannot work without 'fuel'. We bought in hay at £2 per bale of which he ate a bale per day (every day!). Add to that the cost of bran, oats, sugar beet pulp etc. Equipment - the costs are as long as a piece of string! - there is no use at all of going to an antiques aution and buying old collars and harness that have been festering in a barn since the 1900's - even ploughs and other equipment are best bought 'new'. Buying this stuff is dangerous as the stitching is decayed and moving parts rusted up. We bought American collars and harness. On the face of it I suppose horse use seems to be carbon neutral in that you're not using fossil fuel to drive it but the associated costs of keeping such an animal is out of most people's reach. Having said all that - we are looking to buy another heavy sort to extract wood from our forest - at least that's the dream!!! Martin I'm not for a moment questioning the colossal cash and effort expense of keeping horses (my daughter keeps two), BUT we are rapidly heading for the time when not using carbon inputs wherever possible will become more and more important  - "cash" puts some very strange "values" on things - as our strange perverted system is at the moment, you can get a flight to somewhere exotic for threepence - yet the carbon footprint of that has polar bear cubs sliding off ice floes at an ever-increasing rate. The sooner the taxation system is biased towards heftily penalising such activities the better! kimmie although as bracken said it would inaccurate and will of course be romanticize to get people to watch...it's still very interesting...it gives you an idea of how things could of been and how the items could of been used, which i find interesing because my ancestors were farmers of one sort or another, it will give me some idea of what they went through...some of the hardships they had to face...and yet i dont see the program as a true representation of the time...just that what ever these people go through..it would of been worse for those who really lived it. Lord_Azrael I never truly expect any historical representation to be 100% accurate, for that you'd need to be able to go back in time and witness it first hand, but I still found it very interesting. As for the costs of horses, I've never owned one myself, but I know they are an expensive animal to keep...but in context.  Don't forget that back in the past when these animals were kept I doubt they had all the vet treatment they have now (if any), the blacksmith/farrier would have been local and reasonably priced and most of the food would probably have come from your own land (hay etc.). For the horses sake, thankfully veterinary care is now available, but it is most likely our 'wonderful ways of money' nowadays that makes them expensive as they are mainly pets now rather than working animals. I must admit, I wish we still had our ranges here in our farm cottages, but they were unfortunately removed many years ago.  I still have the old chain up the chimney though! Maria Pig stomach for sealing pickles. If I thought hard enough and had nothing else - I'd come to that conclusion eventually???   So many apples. Millstone pulping and pressing.   Ina I've just been told that their turkey was called Ina. Nicely stuffed and carved. Well. kimmie Yes it was Ina...we couldnt help but laugh sorry looked like it cooked well though Ina Alright, alright... Don't think they'd have had an oven big enough to get me in! kimmie They didnt they put Ina on an upright spit infront of their fire Sassinak I fondly remember the linked series of Victorian Kitchen, Victorian Kitchen Garden and then Victorian Garden. They were very historically accurate as well as being entertaining. I only managed to catch the first episode of  this series and found it a bit disappointing. But I shall watch more if I get the chance and see if it improves annepan001 Heavy horses and shoes ... Just wanted to check with Bracken on the heavy horses / shoe thing.  I went up to earthshare nr Forres last year for a day's workshop on working with Clydesdales, and they reckoned they never had to shoe their horses, so long as they stayed on the farm and off the roads. Would you agree with that, or not?   I've a farm where we're growing organic veg, and seriously considering whether we should be looking for a suitable heavy horse (or 2).  The whole farm interlinnks nicely, so there'd be no need to go on the roads on a day to day basis.   But we just heard that one of our neighbours lost some ponies to grass sickness last year, and their field adjoins our farm ... so we're very nervous about that, and need to now find out all we can about grass sickness! bracken horses I can only advise you using my own experiences and the advice given by the horsemen that we know. Our shire had 'bad feet' - a combination of neglect (before we had him) and conformation. The shires these days are bred for the showring and not really for working - the original working horses were never as big as some of the ones you see these days - our lad was 18hh or more. A horses foot is the human equivalent of the middle finger of your hand, the hoof the nail. So, the entire weight  of the horse (in the case of a large shire is over a ton) is spread out over his four feet. When you ask a horse to work his legs and feet are the pistons so it really makes sense to protect them as much as possible. I doubt very much if you would have seen a true working horse in the 'olden days' without shoes wether they were road working or not. Despite all our best efforts and expense our horse developed a sand crack in one of his back feet which put him out of work for over a year. Fortunately we were insured...!!! but he still needed feeding and caring for. I have no doubt that there are folk out there who 'never shoe their horses' and that is up to them of course but there is an old saying - no foot no horse....  says it all really!! lachlanandmarcus Re: Heavy horses and shoes ... annepan001 wrote: But we just heard that one of our neighbours lost some ponies to grass sickness last year, and their field adjoins our farm ... so we're very nervous about that, and need to now find out all we can about grass sickness! Our neighbour also lost a horse to GS so we are also paranoid, esp as our big chap got sick last year and the vets initially suspected GS   thankfully it wasnt but its a horrible word to hear them say with 90%+ mortality rate... The key things I learned are that the most risky ground  for the botulism they think is to blame is acidic grassland with a lot of clover and ground that has been disturbed by harrowing or moles/rabbit. Not much we can do about some of those !other than not harrowing or over grazing things  but some other stuff also makes a difference. A big one is that the risk is much reduced if the horses are in some of the time eating hay/other feed rather than grass, it gives the system a respite from the potential toxins. So not turning out 24x7 does help even if its just a couple of hours in, or if thats not poss, feeding some hay in the field. I also think that pink powder is very good to help their tummies stay in balance and also a mineral lick for the field, Norvite do one designed for Scottish soil specifically. On the topic of shoes, I have one horse unshod (never shod) and one shod. But its the bigger heavier one who is shod, and the Shires I have met have all had fairly ropey feet. I would tend towards shoeing them tho it is expensive - if you can find a farrier prepared for the strain of doing it! hope this helps! Younger horses are more at risk than older ones and recent upheaval (eg long journeys) can also trigger it. Julie I finally found time to watch the first two recordings of this programme. I'm enjoying it and finding it very informative - I just wish they would stop chasing the sheep and use their brains to get them in. It makes a change to see an experiment where they use people who are well schooled in their subject at the start - the Welsh farm and Tudor programmes these guys took part in were excellent too. Lord_Azrael There is a book out now to accompany this series, I had a quick look at it in Borders and I think I'll get it when I have a few ££'s spare as it is nicely laid out and explains each of the tasks they undertake with a bit more information about them. Hopefully the series will be available on DVD at some point as I missed one episode.  I know I can watch it on iplayer, but that's not really convenient when I really want to watch it on the TV rather than my computer. annepan001 Thanks Bracken and Lachlan.. it's great to hear from people who have experience with heavy horses! The Clydesdales are now being bred to be more suitable for riding than working, so have longer legs and are less strong than their ancestors. There was a big class of Clydesdales in the riding class at the Royal Highland Show last year ... Interesting info about the grass sickness ... our soil is naturally very acidic (so we're gradually liming it to increse the pH), and being organic, we use clover extensively to boost soil fertility - neither of which sounds great for minimising the risk of GS.   But knowledge is power, as they say, so at least if we start getting an idea of the main causes, we've half a chance of doing something to minimise the risk.   I watched the first episode of the victorian farm on iplayer today and look forward to the rest! Julie Lord_Azrael wrote: Hopefully the series will be available on DVD at some point as I missed one episode.   You might find it will be repeated in the 'sign zone' in the near future. You could record it then but, of course, there will be someone signing for the deaf in the bottom corner. kimmie you can catch up on the that you missed through this link too  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00gn2bl we had also missed one, but thankfully caught up now   Lord_Azrael kimmie wrote: you can catch up on the that you missed through this link too  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00gn2bl we had also missed one, but thankfully caught up now   Yeah, that's the iplayer link, which is fine for me to watch, but to take it round for my parents to watch on tv is a problem.  It would be nice to be able to actually download to DVD rather than only being able to watch it on my PC.  Serves me right for not taping it at the time really... Sassinak The book of the series is now on 'The Book People' reduced from £20 to £7.99 Lord_Azrael Do you have a link for that please? Sassinak There you go http://www.thebookpeople.co.uk/we...SIC&searchTerm=victorian+farm Oh lordy it's huge lol        NEEPS Forum Index -> What's on TV/Radio Page 1 of 1