Archive for NEEPS North East Eco-friendly People's Site          NEEPS Forum Index -> RRRR - refuse, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle wildgarlic Alternatives to the plastic bag Quote: Your alternatives to the plastic bag The battle lines in the war on the plastic bag have been clearly drawn. But what are the alternatives when you have a week's groceries to get home? The 4x4 may have sparked a minor storm but it never managed to rile such big beasts as this. Yet the plastic bag has had Gordon Brown, Marks and Spencer and the Daily Mail roaring in anger. The prime minister's warning that he may force shops to cut down on the bags is the latest salvo. But what else can people use to transport their groceries from the check-out to the fridge? Readers have been coming up with their preferred alternatives: Read more Have you any ideas to share? What do YOU use instead of a plastic bag. Do you think that it's a good idea to force shops to cut down on the bags in the first place? Ina This discussion only amuses me... Oh goodness, what a problem - we have to get the shopping home without using plastic bags! This needs a national debate!!! A referendum, at least!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, other countries have been doing it for decades - there's never been a discussion, and they've still managed to get their shopping home -at least, I never heard of major famines caused by not being able to transport food from the shop to your kitchen.... Argh! wildgarlic I know Ina.... I know.... it is quite amusing, but for many people plastic bags are a habit that they've grown up with.... add to that the fact that they are free, convenient, disposable etc**. Once upon a time the checkout assistant at the supermarket (I used to work in one many moons ago) had to put the already wrapped chicken into a SEPARATE plastic bag in order to put it into the plastic bag with the customer's other shopping. ** not my own thoughts btw... just voicing some of the arguments that I've heard in favour of the plastic bags. IainC Will go without a bag if I only have a couple of things but if I have quite a few then I do use them. My granda used to get the weekely shopping and didn't use any bags, just filled the trolley back up with it and then put it into boxes or a wicker basket he had in the boot of the car. Zaf we used to do the same when going shopping with my mum,  I think the shops would put frozen and chilled stuff in bags though. I cant see why the shops cant use paper bags like they do in the US if bags are needed,  at least they are biodegradeable Ina IainC wrote: My granda used to get the weekely shopping and didn't use any bags, just filled the trolley back up with it and then put it into boxes or a wicker basket he had in the boot of the car. Ergh - actually, it's even possible to go shopping without a car... You know, around a few thousand years ago they invented these fantastic little thingies called shopping bags, made out of durable material like cotton, linen, jute etc? We never had a car in our family, and we managed. For the trips to the allotment (about 2 miles away) we used a hand drawn cart, if there were really large items to transport (huge pumpkins, toddlers etc). Bicycles are brilliant for shopping, too. In Germany I had a trailer for the bigger items; held two cases of beer, or two bags of compost! And panniers for the rest of the stuff, of course. IainC Ina wrote: Ergh - actually, it's even possible to go shopping without a car... You know, around a few thousand years ago they invented these fantastic little thingies called shopping bags, made out of durable material like cotton, linen, jute etc? We never had a car in our family, and we managed. For the trips to the allotment (about 2 miles away) we used a hand drawn cart, if there were really large items to transport (huge pumpkins, toddlers etc). Bicycles are brilliant for shopping, too. In Germany I had a trailer for the bigger items; held two cases of beer, or two bags of compost! And panniers for the rest of the stuff, of course. Try doing that on the west coast when you live on a croft ~10-15 miles from the nearest town when you are retired. PurpleDragon Co-op are selling really nice cotton bags that (I think) are Fair Trade for 65p. I bought one yesterday and it is very nice. Got a gusset and everything. wildgarlic Yes - normal price is 99p, which is a bargain.... 65p is ridiculously cheap methinks. They are a good size and are pretty strong too. Cassiepod Just as a discussion point   what about folk who take the plastic bags, but then use them as their bin bags instead of bin liners - is that good or bad? kimmie my aunt reminded me and has got me to do the same (when i remember) she used a wicker shopping basket....i found one when i went shopping with Alimum the other day in a charity shop...works very well for most of the stuff! another aunt used to use the shopping trollys(fabric ones) and reconed they were invaluble!! Ina Cassiepod wrote: Just as a discussion point   what about folk who take the plastic bags, but then use them as their bin bags instead of bin liners - is that good or bad? Bin liners are another very strange British invention. Why do you need to double wrap your rubbish? It just creates more waste! In Germany (and now here in my household), rubbish goes straight in the bin. OK, you might try and keep soggy or smelly stuff wrapped, but you can use other rubbish (non-reusable or recyclable containers) for that. And anyway, since most of the damp or soft stuff will go on your compost, there won't be much of that. PurpleDragon I have a trolley on wheels. When the kids go swimming, I walk up to the shops for any bits and pieces I need, and I pull that behind me. Loads of folk give me funny looks because they associate them with oldfolk, but I can't understand why someone would struggle along with bags (of any description) when you can just pull something along behind you. I get tonnes of stuff in mine. I reckon i would need at least 4 standard carrier bags to replace it! Ina I find them very useful, too. Not that I have one myself, as yet - but then I don't do that much shopping. So far I've been OK with just the rucksack and a couple of strong jute bags. The SUMA one (or rather Clipper) definitely is the nicest of them! Fia Cassiepod wrote: Just as a discussion point   what about folk who take the plastic bags, but then use them as their bin bags instead of bin liners - is that good or bad? The reason I use them as bin bags is that I screwed 2 hooks into the side of my butchers block to hang the bags from - having no actual kitchen bin. When they eventually make a charge for them I will invest in a kitchen bin. Dunno if I'm good or bad, just making the best of free available resources   Ina Fia wrote: Dunno if I'm good or bad, just making the best of free available resources   There's nothing like a free lunch... But of course, you can re-use these bags, too. Just empty them into your bin once they are full, and hang them back on the hook! Julie PurpleDragon wrote: I have a trolley on wheels. When the kids go swimming, I walk up to the shops for any bits and pieces I need, and I pull that behind me. Loads of folk give me funny looks because they associate them with oldfolk, but I can't understand why someone would struggle along with bags (of any description) when you can just pull something along behind you. I get tonnes of stuff in mine. I reckon i would need at least 4 standard carrier bags to replace it! Ah, the good old shopping trolley - bane of unwary ankles everywhere I have one too PD, don't knock them, they are pretty damn useful. I really only use mine when I go down to my Mum's but I can cram an amazing amount of stuff in it. I tell all the market retailers to put my purchases straight into the trolley as the bags just take up too much room - it's easier than explaining the green issues to them. Mine also came in handy to catch a purse snatcher in Birmingham Rag market. He tripped over the wheel as he ran past me so I grabbed him, and held him down with his arm up behind his back, until the policeman relieved me of him. All I could think of at the time was how much lighter than some of my ewes he was and that it was probably quite humiliating to be 'hog wrestled' by an old woman   I left my fabric bags in the car on Thursday by mistake so I put everything into the washing up bowl I had just bought - and got green points. One big advantage to using fabric bags is they hold a lot more and you can tie the soft handles together to stop things falling out on the journey home. Ina Julie wrote: Mine also came in handy to catch a purse snatcher in Birmingham Rag market. He tripped over the wheel as he ran past me so I grabbed him, and held him down with his arm up behind his back, until the policeman relieved me of him. Brilliant - Julie the crime fighter - our hero!!! They should make these trolleys compulsory for everybody then - makes up for fewer police on the street... johnhcrf Alternatives to plastic bags of all types I am running a campaign (ZeroWastePackaging) to assess the present options to reduce waste packaging, including all pastic bags, to zero. The choice is to use old-fashioned bags to carry items either in recyclable packaging, plastic boxes, or with no packaging. So far, local traders offer the zero option whereas superstores do not have this since plastic wrapping is all-embracing. You can take fruit/veg unwrapped but check-out is awkward in the latter. I have been unable to buy biscuits, most cakes in all supestores but the local bakershop is a good alternative. I ask for zero waste packaged items in superstores but they have no facility for this. They do not seem to understand the public's desire to change things for the better. Ina Re: Alternatives to plastic bags of all types johnhcrf wrote: I ask for zero waste packaged items in superstores but they have no facility for this. They do not seem to understand the public's desire to change things for the better. I think it's also at least partly a problem with Health and Safety: they (the sellers) are responsible for selling 100% safe food. If you get home and find that something is wrong with the food you bought, there will always be the question (at least the way the law stands now): was it contaminated before you bought it, or did it get contaminated while you were carrying it home in your own container/wrapping? That problem arose in Germany: a few years ago you were welcome to take your tubs and bags and get them filled at the cheese or meat counter in the supermarket. That has been stopped (as far as I  know, everywhere). Even on the small scale that could be a problem: a farmer I worked for in Germany refused to sell milk off farm (although that is still legal in Germany). Why? Because he'd had complaints from some customers who never cleaned their bottles properly, as a consequence of which their milk went off very quickly. He knew that it wasn't his milk (gets tested every day when it's picked up by the dairy). But the customers still wanted their money back. Don't get me wrong: I think it would be much better if everybody took on the responsibility of reducing packaging. It's one of the reasons why I rarely buy in supermarkets. Julie We could probably save quite a lot of plastic just by making our own bags to put fruit and veg in, there wouldn't be a contamination issue there. I have some old net curtains I am going to recycle into these sort of bags as they won't weigh much at the checkout - although I expect I would be well within my rights to insist that they weighed the stuff loose. They seem to have a lot of unnecessary plastic on the boxes too. Things such as bananas have plastic on top of the fruit, which makes it wet and sweaty. They have a cardboard lid on the box, so I can't see the point of it? johnhcrf Ina,s reply You are right about meat/fish items. I use the butcher/fishmonger exclusively using a washed plastic box. However cakes, biscuits do not need plastic wrapping. Supermarkets should use biodegradable plastic, but I do not know if it is fully developed yet. jaydee67 I was thinking about waste packaging today as I unwrapped the cellophane from my sealed cardboard box of co-op fairtrade tea bags. Why does it need to be wrapped in cellophane if the box is sealed? johnhcrf Fairtrade plastic wrapped tea bags This is where the consumer is king, rather than the superstore. Choose purchases with the ZeroWastePackaging attitude which says that purchases should be 100% compostable/recyclable. They use the stuff unthinkingly and then blame councils and consumers for the mess. hcrf Julie jaydee67 wrote: I was thinking about waste packaging today as I unwrapped the cellophane from my sealed cardboard box of co-op fairtrade tea bags. Why does it need to be wrapped in cellophane if the box is sealed? As many of the teabags are in sealed foil bags inside the boxes, they could probably dispense with the boxes too if they weren't so worried about the presentation :? Julie Re: Fairtrade plastic wrapped tea bags johnhcrf wrote: This is where the consumer is king, rather than the superstore. Choose purchases with the ZeroWastePackaging attitude which says that purchases should be 100% compostable/recyclable. They use the stuff unthinkingly and then blame councils and consumers for the mess. hcrf I have to agree, if we all vote with our feet and they aren't selling the overpackaged stuff they'll have to rethink their packaging policy won't they. johnhcrf The next step If we can agree to act together, then the next stage is to identify targets and relate experiences. Superstores are worried. I spoke to an M&S employee. He enthused about the 40% compostable/recyclable packaging but I said 100% is required. They are so dependant on plastic that it will be difficult to change, but change they must. M&S food waste was about £3b last year, and all that waste had plastic packaging. It is a nightmare. hcrf Maidenstone I line my kitchen waste bin with a couple of big newspaper sheets as I don't have soggy stuff to throw out - all veg peelings go into compost bucket. Roll meat bones and fat in newspaper - they go on the solid fuel stove in winter, or I make fat balls for the birds, but in summer go in the wheelie bin.  Everything else is recyclable, or plastic. Fia Apologies for going off-topic but: When I had a spectacular chimney fire a few years ago (flames 6' high from the chimney pot) I was advised by the Fire-fighters not to burn fat of any kind, as my habit of doing that probably compounded my chimney fire. Admittedly my old chimney (now relined) did catch on fire easily. "Some do" the valiant Fire Chief consoled me. But did think I should perhaps pass it on to Maidenstone. Making fat balls for the birds is now my preferred winter option. Maidenstone Thank you for that advice, Fia - I do usually pour runny fat into a carton and put it in the bin, but it is worth knowing it is dangerous to burn fat of any kind.   I shall certainly recycle it in future through the birds, mixed with other foods - I am wrestling with the idea of not buying imported seeds for them when we are trying to become 'locavores', and trying to think of suitable 'local' bird foods - any ideas anyone? IainC Fia wrote: Apologies for going off-topic but: When I had a spectacular chimney fire a few years ago (flames 6' high from the chimney pot) I was advised by the Fire-fighters not to burn fat of any kind, as my habit of doing that probably compounded my chimney fire. Admittedly my old chimney (now relined) did catch on fire easily. "Some do" the valiant Fire Chief consoled me. But did think I should perhaps pass it on to Maidenstone. Making fat balls for the birds is now my preferred winter option. Nothing to stop you using it to help start fires outside though if you are burning garden waste outside.        NEEPS Forum Index -> RRRR - refuse, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle Page 1 of 1